1911 vs Glock
I've been shooting range rentals to help determine my choice of a large‑frame .45 to buy. I've about narrowed the field down to a Colt 1911‑pattern and the Glock 21. My soul wants to shoot the Colt, my hand likes to shoot the Glock.
I'd appreciate some insight into the reason behind making this decision. I'm not looking to rehash the plastic frame or unintentional discharge Glock arguments, although if that was the deciding factor in picking the Colt I'd like to know.
Can you give me some insight on magazine capacity? I thought that 1911s were never made to accept hi‑cap mags whereas with the Glock, you could get at least one hi‑cap.
Opinion #1
You are in a 'win ‑win' situations. Both the G21 and 1911A1 are excellent devices and there's is ONLY one way out of your dilemma. Get both!
Also, have you tried a CZ97B? I love mine. It's SA/DA and a different grip than either the Glock or 1911A1.
Opinion #2
I spent some time at the range, making a shooting comparison between both guns (in the case of the 1911, a modern Springfield). A hundred rounds later, there is no question, it's the 1911 for me. Accuracy, in my hands, at least, is about the same, grip size and angle is much better in the 1911. Guns without a real manual safety make me nervous.
What really convinced me, though, was the trigger pull. The Springfield's was crisp. The Glock was long and uneven. I'm used to a fairly long, springy trigger pull, I like the way the triggers on my Lugers feel, but the Glock was just way out of bounds.
I have both a 1911 (Gold Cup that is about 20 years old) and a Glock 36 in 45 ACP. Got the 1911 because of workmanship, feel of a precision piece of machinery, history of the firearm, long demonstrated history of reliability, etc. Got the Glock so I would have a modern design pistol in my collection and because of reliability reputation.
I shoot both every month or two ‑ 50 rounds or so each. Out of the box accuracy is similar, approximately 2 to 3 inches at 25 yards off‑hand with factory and reloads.
Opinion #3
I shot Glocks and a number of 1911 pistols before going with a Springfield 1911‑A1 for the following reasons:
1.) .45 ACP in the 1911 is comfortable to shoot all day. The same cartridge in the lighter polymer pistol gets annoying (to me).
2.) I hate the Glock grips. Being as they're molded in, you can only change them with slip‑ons.
3.) I absolutely hate the Glock trigger. I first learned to shoot pistols with a 1911 and I am addicted to the single‑action trigger break. The half‑DA/half‑SA feel of the Glock gets more annoying the more I shoot it.
4.) The 1911 may be "Old Ugly", but it's still prettier than a Glock.
5.) You can tighten up a 1911 to be really accurate if you're interested in bulls-eye shooting.
6.) The 1911 is an "enthusiast" platform with lots of after‑market accessories and parts. A Glock is a Glock is a Glock.
7.) I know you said you weren't looking for this, but: light trigger group + no safety still makes me a wee bit nervous.
Opinion #4
I'm a collector/shooter of older auto pistols. I take several guns to the range a couple times a month. The Glock would be my only "modern" gun. I'm considering it because it felt really good to shoot and surprised me with its accuracy.
One of the first questions you should ask yourself is do you want to buy it, have it work right away, keep it and just shoot factory ammo? Or, do you like to compete?
Opinion #5
1911 advantages:
1) Lots of 'cheap' parts available.
2) easy to repair/maintain/modify yourself.
3) Heavy-duty and rugged.
4) Feeds a large variety of loads and bullet styles and sizes reliably, and shoots
them accurately.
5) No limp wrist ejection problems like Glock.
6) Absolutely reliable ‑ no spring fatigue problems like Glock.
1911 disadvantages:
1) Has a safety.
2) It's heavier.
Opinion 6
For large a frame semi‑auto pistol, I'm a 1911 guy:
1. Tinkering: Easy to take fully apart, replace parts with tons of aftermarket trinkets, make the gun into what you want. I also like being able to take it fully apart once in a while to really clean everything. Glock owners claim this is not needed. They may be right, but it runs against my grain.
2. Logistics: I do not trust my government. I now own a spare part for every part on my 1911 type pistol, and several of the ones that tend to wear out. And lots of reloading supplies, of course. And I have learned enough of the lore about these guns to be confident that I can keep it shooting for the rest of my life. 1911 lore is easy to come by in the U.S.A. You can't really get into Glocks the same way.
3. It feels right in my hand. Some people like the thick Glock grip, some like the thin 1911 grip. If you like the Glock, that is a strong argument in its favor.
4. I can handload 200 grain LSWC (lead semi wadcutter) target loads for around 4 cents a shot, buying the bullets in bulk. You're not supposed to shoot lead bullets through the Glock, thus at least doubling the cost of practice even if you handload.
Opinion #7
Here's an argument for the Glock. I've owned nine 1911 type pistols. Not one was 100 percent reliable with anything but hardball, out of the box. That's easy enough to correct, or have done, and the real expensive custom guns are probably reliable as they come, although I've never owned one. Glocks, as I understand it, shoot reliably out of the box, although I've never owned one of those either.
Opinion #8
At the risk of sounding flippant, I suggest that you buy both! I have both and which I carry is a result of how much time I get to spend at the range with it. If I'm getting enough range time to feel confident/competent with the single action trigger of my Springfield, which I prefer over Colt, then I carry that one most, otherwise I carry the Glock and don't feel at all as if I'm"slumming."
Opinion #9
kB's are due to stupidity, not inherent design flaws in Glocks, contrary to popular belief. Bad ammo is #1 cause of kB's.
That said, shoot what you shoot well. Period. I own both, in several varieties. I shoot both equally well but prefer the Glock because of it's simplicity of action. (Draw, aim, fire.)
Shoot what you like. Get the other later.
Opinion #10
I own a Colt and I like the Glock operating system, but the both guns feel like a brick in my hand. Glock makes a single‑stack gun, but I've never tried it.
IMHO, you should shoot whichever one "fits" better. Glocks are very reliable, and less expensive than good quality 1911‑pattern guns (not sure on this last ‑ Springfield may have a reliable model that isn't too pricey).
One factor you might consider is that the plastic frame of the Glock is said to absorb some of the recoil making it a little more comfortable to shoot. I think for most of us, how good the gun felt in the hand would be a major factor.
Opinion #11
I've shot both and the winner, hands down, is the 1911. I, too am addicted to single action trigger. Also, I can't find anything that John Browning left out when he designed that marvelous work of art. Also, 1911's are highly, highly serviceable with parts being almost as common as spark plugs.
One more thing you might ask yourself: "Why is it that the 1911 is far and away THE most produced and most copied semi‑automatic in the US?
Opinion #12
I don't know what kind of 1911's you've been looking at, but mine has a one piece slide. Ever wonder why 99% of competition guns are built on the 1911 design? Sorry, I won't try the GP35 or the CZ‑75. What I use works perfectly for me.
Opinion #13
Personally, I love the 1911 trigger for target shooting (it IS the choice of champions in competition), and it's a damn good looking gun and has a rich history, but that's about all it has going for it.
Opinion #14
I carry (well, used to before I move to NYC) a Glock because it is extremely reliable, very safe, lighter, and you will never have any issues with manual safeties. Carrying a Glock with one in the chamber (the *only* way to carry!) is safer than carrying a 1911 cocked with one in the chamber. If thrown down or dropped hard enough, the 1911 may fire. This is impossible with a Glock. Honestly, you will probably never experience such a discharge or meet anyone who has. Nonetheless, the difference is real.
Opinion #15
Glocks are "drop‑safe" hence the genius of their simple design. The Glock has three safeties, two of which relate directly to the (theoretical) issues with the 1911 design.
A 1911 can go off (supposedly) when dropped on the muzzle (firing pin accelerates forward, safety position doesn't matter) or when dropped on the rear (trigger gains enough momentum to actuate, safety must be off).
The Glock has a trigger stop that must be depressed before the trigger will move rearward. It also has a firing pin stop which is only released after the trigger has been released and has traversed through most of its travel distance.
Finally, a Glock is only "half‑cocked" (well... more than half) and is only fully cocked by fully depressing the trigger. That way, if the gun were to fly apart and firing pin released, and through some freak of nature the firing pin stop failed, the firing pin shouldn't have enough momentum to set off the cartridge. That's why it's not really single action, or double action. Glock calls it safe‑action. If nothing else, it definitely is safe.
Opinion #16
Apparently, you want a .45. I just got some data on all the Glocks. I would recommend the 21C; this gun has a ported barrel which will reduce the recoil. the loss in initial velocity is very small and you can do a follow up shot lot quicker than a plain Glock 21. The accuracy is best with Speer ammo lite at 1.48 in at 15 yards. Ref: Glock Buyers Guide Autopistols 2002. I am getting a 17C with adjustable night sights.
Opinion #17
I own a Kimber 1911 and a Glock 23 in .40 caliber and I'm glad I have both! Either you're a pure gun enthusiast, and you'd see the positive in any pistol, or you're hell bent on just liking one or two types of pistols.
I'm an enthusiast! They both have distinct personalities ‑ but it all depends on what you're using it for.
Opinion #18
Do you prefer apples or oranges? What will you be using it for? Either is suitable for holster carry, neither is the best choice to carry in a briefcase or glove box, due to the short, light triggers.
Stock 1911s are often considered "gun kits" and need gunsmithing to improve ergonomics and reliability with anything but hardball ammo.
Glocks are ready to go out of the box, but will never have a trigger to match a good 1911.
Opinion #19
If you want a 1911 that is ready out of the box, IMHO, Kimber is the best for the money. Wilson, Baer and the custom gunsmiths can do better, but at twice the price.
You pay your money and you takes your choice. Either the 1911 or the Glock can be a good choice.
Opinion #20
These days, the Glock and the 1911 really perform two different roles (with some overlap, of course).
The Glock is primarily a "service" weapon, designed to be at it's best in close range combat. It can take more abuse (assuming you use standard factory ammo to avoid the kB! issue). Also more reliable on average. Precision trigger action is sacrificed for simplicity. Very popular with law enforcement.
The (modern, e.g. Kimber, Springfield) 1911 is primarily a "specialty" weapon, able to be customized for specific purposes. There are many "tactical" variants as well as many competition "race guns" offered from the custom shops, or you can "do it yourself" if a stock 1911 isn't enough for what you want to do. The 1911 action is not as simple to learn, i.e., there is a safety, but is much more precision/accuracy oriented. Almost no law enforcement department issues the 1911, except for "specialized" units like hostage rescue teams.
Personally, I'm a 1911 fan because of the versatility and precision of the design. Get what works for you.
Opinion #21
I would agree with this characterization of the Glock pistol: "If you need to issue a simple and reliable weapon to large numbers of people, many of whom are shall we say "less than expert" in the operation of firearms, then the simplest and most fool‑proof gun is the way to go. Glocks satisfy this niche quite well. They are not the most accurate, don't have the best trigger or "feel", and one size fits all, but for the average Joe you can hand him one and he'll do a fairly good job with it. Kind of like a Ford Taurus. It gets the job done but there is nothing special about it.
1911s on the other hand seem to be found in the hands or in the holsters of the experts. Whether it's professional shooters, elite and paramilitary forces, or instructors like those at Thunder Ranch and other training facilities, you usually find their weapon of choice is some variation of 1911. You can argue all you want but the experts seem to prefer the Browning design for many reasons.
The bottom line is that those who are truly expert with handguns and can choose anything they want tend to go for the 1911. The Glock is a good gun to get started with and does many jobs well, but my observation is that when one reaches a higher level of competence with a gun a 1911 is what you eventually end up with.
Opinion #22
I think the main reason the Glock is so popular with police chiefs is just price. Try finding any 1911 ‑ or any other non‑used semi worth buying ‑ for a Glock price. Buying a Glock is like getting a 50%‑off coupon on a pistol purchase.
Glocks have probably been in more accidental discharges by officers than all other weapons combined in U.S. police history ‑ so much so that the Washington Post even ran a huge article about the District Of Chaos' own police force's problems with officers accidentally shooting people with their Glocks. Translation: Those who are actually both carrying the gun in confrontations as well as making gun selections don't choose Glocks.
Opinion #23
As a younger person, more people my age tend to lean towards newer type guns. I have never been a fan of the 1911. A few reasons are that I just think the Glock is the way to go. Very simple to take down and clean. Very reliable. Many extras.
Opinion #24
OK, I don't like plastic frames. Guns should not be made of plastic. I don't like the balance of guns with plastic frames. Top heavy, forward heavy.
I shoot better with a .45. I find the .45 designs to be masterpieces of technical elegance designed by an authentic genius. The Glock design appears to be the work of a committee.
I haven't shot a Glock much, but I have had one jam on ball ammo. It was a range rental gun.
My dead‑stock Army surplus Colt M1911, made in 1918, never jams on ball ammo . . . ever.
Reliability, balance, quality built, shootability, accuracy, simplicity. All go to the 1911. It's a no‑brainer from my viewpoint. No Glocks for me, thanks!
Opinion #25
Let me give you a little of my background to begin with. I carry a Master rating in two divisions of IDPA. I am an avid USPSA shooter. I have five 1911s, wide body, single stacks, 45‑40 & 9mm. I have built several guns myself. I love 1911s. But I am smart enough to know that they have quite a few short comings. I also carry for self‑defense and have recently purchased a Glock 34 to shoot the new production class in USPSA.
To my amazement that ugly little thing shoots very well for me. A little trigger kit, some nice Heine sights and I'm off and running.
As far as the trigger goes, and if you are watching your sight like you ought to be you flat don't notice the weird trigger pull and if you do during competition you are not paying attention to what you should be paying attention to (the front sight). I guess what I am trying to say simply and I really believe this it is the man behind the gun and practice, practice, practice. The stock out of the box Glock will shoot many rounds past the average 1911 out of the box and you 1911 lovers like me darn well know it. Thanks for listening.
