Евреи-4 или вопрос к израильтянам.

v1skater · Post by **v1skater** » 04 Jan 2002 22:06

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by AK70:
1. they occupied palestinian lands
2. they put a lot of palestinians in camps
3. camps are separated, to get from one of them to another is a pain
4. there wasn't israel 50 years ago. how can u say that they have rights to kick out people from an occupied land? it's basically the same what Germany did to Poland in 1939, with exception that Germany was always there. USSR occupied baltic countries, do u think we had to kick out estonians to somewhere else from Estonia?<hr></blockquote>

Я не сомневался, что АК70 проявит свои недюжинные познания из учебника истории для советской школы (или партшколы). Не люблю ликбезом заниматься, но видать придется...
1. Резолюция ООН поделила палестинскую пустыню (ибо там не было никакого государства, только британский мандат на бывшую территорию османской империи) на 2 зоны - для еврейского и арабского государств. Евреи взяли, что им давали (хотя арабское государство в том регионе уже было создано и называлось Трансиорданией). Через год евреи провозгласили государство Израиль в границах 1948 года (то есть согласно резолюции ООН). И жили бы они в этих границах, если бы 5 храбрых и доблестных арабских государств не обьявили бы войну Израилю (точнее, не обьявили, а просто отправились мочить евреев.) Палестинкое государство не было провозглашено, поскольку они собирались его провозгласить на территории палестинской и Израильской. А тем временем, доблестные и победоносные арабские государства попросили арабских братьев очистить территорию Израиля, чтобы кровожадные сионисты их не перерезали, а также, чтобы они не путались под ногами победоносных арабских армий, которые будут сбрасывать евреев в море.
Часть арабов ушла с территории Израиля в лагеря, приготовленные арабскими братьями, а часть осталась. Оставшиеся стали гражданами Израиля.
2. В лагеря их поселили братья арабы. В Ливане и Иордании. Израиль своих арабов никуда не селил. Ошибочка вышла..."Проблему беженцев" создали сами арабы. Сначала выманили арабов из Израиля, поселили в лагеря, потом держали их там 50 лет. Расселить могли бы без проблем, Израиль например расселил пару-тройку миллионов еврейских беженцев на своей крохотной территории. Саудовские принцы, захлебывающиеся от роскоши пожертвовали большой и сочный кукиш. Терроризм они правда поддерживают и разжигают, а помочь расселить - хрен там.
3. Не вижу логики в этом заявлении и не понимаю, какое это имеет отношению к вопросу топика.
4. Полный маразм. См. пункт 1.

shkoda_cat · Post by **shkoda_cat** » 04 Jan 2002 22:12

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by AK70:
4. there wasn't israel 50 years ago. how can u say that they have rights to kick out people from an occupied land? USSR occupied baltic countries, do u think we had to kick out estonians to somewhere else from Estonia?<hr></blockquote>

What is your point? 100 years ago there was no USSR. And 1200 years ago there was no Estonia either. Continuing your way, Estonia must now be destroyed by inhabitants of Norway and Iceland.

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 04 Jan 2002 22:15

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by DP:


а что говорит товаришь Шекель ??? вроде как выгодно экономически иметь дешевую рабсилу...<hr></blockquote>

In the long run - не выгодно.
Проблема как раз в том, что in short run какое-то время было выгодно, их пускали, вот они и привыкли...

shkoda_cat · Post by **shkoda_cat** » 04 Jan 2002 22:27

Ya imeyu vopros nemnozhko razlichniy ot temi. Pochimu glavnost' vseh drak v mire sevodn'a involve Islam worshippers? Pochemu eto vsegda Islam protiv kovoto drugoy? Although I respect any religion, I find this slightly weird.

Azazello · Post by **Azazello** » 04 Jan 2002 22:31

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by goblin:
Ya imeyu vopros nemnozhko razlichniy ot temi. Pochimu glavnost' vseh drak v mire sevodn'a involve Islam worshippers? Pochemu eto vsegda Islam protiv kovoto drugoy? Although I respect any religion, I find this slightly weird.<hr></blockquote>

There is a theory (not that I completely agree with it) that Islam is ~600-700 years younger than the Christiannity. So, if you go back 600-700 years, you are likely to find very similar picture - wherever there is a conflict it is Christians vs. whoever else...
Sorry - no time to fix translit converter bugs [img:7161dea408]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:7161dea408]

AK70 · Post by **AK70** » 04 Jan 2002 22:37

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by goblin:


What is your point? 100 years ago there was no USSR. And 1200 years ago there was no Estonia either. Continuing your way, Estonia must now be destroyed by inhabitants of Norway and Iceland.<hr></blockquote>

that's my point [img:b9552db103]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:b9552db103] u can't say: "this is my land, get out of here!".

it's not the way to solve problems. because it's too simple to be feasible

v1skater · Post by **v1skater** » 04 Jan 2002 22:37

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by goblin:
Ya imeyu vopros nemnozhko razlichniy ot temi. Pochimu glavnost' vseh drak v mire sevodn'a involve Islam worshippers? Pochemu eto vsegda Islam protiv kovoto drugoy? Although I respect any religion, I find this slightly weird.<hr></blockquote>

Goblin, IMHO it is not Islamic religion, but Islamic Fundamentalism. Fundamentalists are usually the issue. If you think of the Far Right, you may notice similar things (need for prayers in schools, certain works of art being "immoral", etc.)

There are also plenty of non-Islamic religious extremists around. All sorts of whacko sects.

While Islam at its core is certainly not a "peaceful" religion, most muslims simply don't realize that, as they haven't read Koran or didn't understand it. Being a muslim doesn't automatically make you a terrorist or extremist.
It may also mean, that you are not a true muslim. [img:efcf9043da]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img:efcf9043da]

And now, let's get back to the topic question... [img:efcf9043da]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img:efcf9043da]

AK70 · Post by **AK70** » 04 Jan 2002 22:39

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Azazello:


There is a theory (not that I completely agree with it) that Islam is ~600-700 years younger than the Christiannity. So, if you go back 600-700 years, you are likely to find very similar picture - wherever there is a conflict it is Christians vs. whoever else...
<hr></blockquote>

agree. Islam is "young", it suffers from many child diseases [img:cf8c119855]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:cf8c119855]

shkoda_cat · Post by **shkoda_cat** » 04 Jan 2002 22:41

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Azazello:


There is a theory (not that I completely agree with it) that Islam is ~600-700 years younger than the Christiannity. So, if you go back 600-700 years, you are likely to find very similar picture - wherever there is a conflict it is Christians vs. whoever else...
Sorry - no time to fix translit converter bugs [img:343258198b]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:343258198b] <hr></blockquote>

IMHO, this makes sense. So now the world is living thorugh the period of Islamic Crusades, huh [img:343258198b]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:343258198b]

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: goblin ]

EMT · Post by **EMT** » 04 Jan 2002 22:45

<blockquote>quote:<hr> goblin: "Ya imeyu vopros nemnozhko razlichniy ot temi. Pochimu glavnost' vseh drak v mire sevodn'a involve Islam worshippers? Pochemu eto vsegda Islam protiv kovoto drugoy? Although I respect any religion, I find this slightly weird.
" <hr></blockquote>
Гоблин, разве Вы исповедуете Ислам?.. (Женщины от Вашего акцента наверное просто "слабеют") [img:8769930724]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img:8769930724]

AK70 · Post by **AK70** » 04 Jan 2002 22:46

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by V1 Skater:


While Islam at its core is certainly not a "peaceful" religion, most muslims simply don't realize that, as they haven't read Koran or didn't understand it. Being a muslim doesn't automatically make you a terrorist or extremist.
It may also mean, that you are not a true muslim. [img:3a8647de15]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img:3a8647de15]
<hr></blockquote>

u can't say that. it's all about interpretation. u take the Book and read it. u do whatever u understand. in Islam there's no a central authority or "holy church", or God's representatives. nothing. there's only a Holy Book. u r alone in your way to God. u may ask somebody to help u to understand it, e.g. mulla. but the final responsibility is solely on u.

so, if somebody blows himself up in a discoteque, then it's his understanding of a Book. he may think that he's a martyr, because somebody told him that. but I think it's b/s

Islam is closer to philosophy than to a religion. every believer excels to whatever level he's capable of. and nobody can be sure that he's right. unless he's in sin of pride [img:3a8647de15]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:3a8647de15]

shkoda_cat · Post by **shkoda_cat** » 04 Jan 2002 22:47

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by V1 Skater:
Being a muslim doesn't automatically make you a terrorist or extremist.
<hr></blockquote>

Oh... I didn't mean it that way. [img:0cefc9e9c1]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img:0cefc9e9c1] Sorry if my words might make up such a sense...

v1skater · Post by **v1skater** » 04 Jan 2002 22:50

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by goblin:


Oh... I didn't mean it that way. [img:79c4eec55a]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img:79c4eec55a] Sorry if my words might make up such a sense...<hr></blockquote>

No worries, buddy (scribbling down Goblin's whereabouts and calling Mahmood)... just kidding. [img:79c4eec55a]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:79c4eec55a]

shkoda_cat · Post by **shkoda_cat** » 04 Jan 2002 22:59

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by EMT:

Гоблин, разве Вы исповедуете Ислам?.. [img:2c56f7734b]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img:2c56f7734b] <hr></blockquote>

No I don't... I'm a Christian... Why do you say that? I'm actually a "social" beliver [img:2c56f7734b]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:2c56f7734b]
.......
Nu vot opat' otlechilsa.. [img:2c56f7734b]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img:2c56f7734b] (kidding)

[ 04-01-2002: Message edited by: goblin ]

Spoiled · Post by **Spoiled** » 05 Jan 2002 01:03

V1 Skater!

I love your style!