Assume vs. presume

[Иоп]

Подскажите пожалуйста, имеют ли эти слова разные смысловые оттенки?
Мне кажется, что assume больше подходит, когда подразумевается искуственное придание истинности утверждению (гипотеза), а presume, когда как бы известно, что утверждение истинно, но доказательство истинности сразу не приводится.

[thinker]

похоже что вы правы

в слове presume приставка "pre" означает "before" (перед). То есть, можно перевести как "известно наперед".

[DanielMa]

In most cases "assume" and "presume" means exactly the same thing.

Presumption is an initial assumption with which you start. Presumption can be rebutted by some evidence. When you say "I presume that you shall be joining us for lunch," you are inviting the person to tell you if he is not joining you.

Assumption doesn't have that preliminary connotation. You can make an assumption after hearing a lot of evidence.

Another way to think about it is that presumptions are a subset of assmuptions. All presumptions are assumptions but not all assumptions are presumptions.

[Lite]

Ну, а ежели по-простому:

assume (v) - take for granted
presume (v) - believe

(http://encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_/presume.html)

[kron]

Ну, а ежели по-простому:

assume (v) - take for granted
presume (v) - believe

(http://encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_/presume.html)

Ну это уж слишком. Так вообще весь словарь можно свести к 30 словам.
Я , например, не вижу никакой связи между <assume> i <take for granted>.

[Lite]

Ну, а ежели по-простому:

assume (v) - take for granted
presume (v) - believe

(http://encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_/presume.html)

Ну это уж слишком. Так вообще весь словарь можно свести к 30 словам.
Я , например, не вижу никакой связи между <assume> i <take for granted>.

Все претензии - к Encarta.

[Иоп]

thanks a lot!

Especially I liked

"Another way to think about it is that presumptions are a subset of assmuptions. All presumptions are assumptions but not all assumptions are presumptions."

Это по нашему, по "технарски"!

[dima_ca]

Глагол to assume вообще имеет гораздо больше применений, чем to presume, assume responsibility, например.

Но чисто из опыта общения с носителями языка, я бы сказал, что "I presume" выражает большую уверенность говорящего, чем "I assume".

[Лучано]

Эх, филологи, сравниваем разные значения! Хотя понятно, что имплицитно говориться об одном из них, все же следует почитать первоисточники.

Значения:

presume /przjum/ v. LME. [(O)Fr. presumer f. L praesumere, f. prae PRE- + sumere take.] 1 v.t. a Undertake without adequate authority or permission; venture on. Now rare. LME. b Take the liberty or be audacious enough to do. LME. 2 v.t. Assume to be true or (Law) proved in the absence of evidence to the contrary, presuppose (that); assume (a person or thing) to be. LME. 3 v.i. Act with an assumption of authority; take liberties. Foll. by (up)on: act presumptuously on the strength of, take (unscrupulous) advantage of; also (now rare), count confidently on. LME. 4 v.i. Make one's way overconfidently into an unwarranted position; presume to go. LME-L17. 5 v.t. Make pretension, profess, to do. L15-M17. presumedly adv. as is presumed, supposedly M19. presumer n. E16. presuming ppl a. presumptuous, arrogant E17. presumingly adv. E17.

Контекст:

1a P. P. READ He looked surprised..as if a servant had presumed too great a familiarity. b H. KISSINGER He is a reckless ambassador who would presume to preempt his chiefs. 2. Law Reports Death is presumed from the person not being heard of for seven years. BETTY SMITH You have a sweetheart or a brother, I presume? L. DURRELL Those who..presume that if he spent his time with me I must also..be rich. A. MACLEAN In law every man is presumed innocent until proved otherwise. 3 R. SHAW Forgive me if I have presumed. F. RAPHAEL Shelley..presumed..on Byron's goodwill. 4 MILTON Into the Heaven of Heavens I have presumed, An earthly guest.

Тезаур:

presume verb 1. I presume that your new partner is honest|presumed innocent until proved guilty assume, take for granted, take it, take as read, suppose, presuppose, believe, think, imagine, judge, guess, surmise, conjecture, hypothesize, infer, deduce. 2. don't presume to offer advice to a more experienced person have the temerity, have the audacity, be so bold as, make so bold as, have the effrontery, go so far as, dare, venture. PRESUME ON presume on his good nature take advantage of, take unfair advantage of, exploit, take liberties with.

Значения:

assume /sjum/ v.t. LME. [L assumere, f. ad AS-1 + sumere take. Cf. Fr. assumer.] 1 Receive (a person) into association, service, or use; adopt; spec. receive up into heaven. arch. LME. b Choose, elect, to some (elevated) position. E16-L17. 2 Take (a thing) into use; use, absorb, consume. Long rare. LME. 3 Take for granted; take as being true, for the sake of argument or action; suppose. LME. 4 Chiefly Law. Take it upon oneself, undertake, to do. arch. LME. 5 Lay claim to, appropriate, arrogate, (to oneself). LME. b Claim to do. L16. 6 Take or put on oneself (an aspect, form, or garb); take to oneself, develop, (an attribute); take to oneself formally (the insignia of office or symbol of a vocation); undertake (an office or duty). In early use foll. by upon oneself. M16. 7 Simulate, pretend to have. E17. 8 Logic. = SUBSUME 2b. arch. E17.assumable a. M17. assumedly /-mdli/ adv. as is assumed, presumably L19. assumer n. E17. assuming a. taking much upon oneself, presumptuous, arrogant E17. assumingly adv. in an assuming manner, presumptuously M19.

1 R. C. TRENCH Revealed religion assumes them into her service. b F. QUARLES Her Unkles love assum'd her for his own. 2 T. VENNER Let there be assumed a draught of..Beere. D. H. LAWRENCE The pink young houses show one side bright Flatly assuming the sun. 3 E. WILSON Marx had assumed the value of Shakespeare and the Greeks and more or less left it at that. C. S. FORESTER A slight broadening of the high-road, with an avenue of trees, which Hornblower assumed must be the central square of the town. M. AMIS When you're young you assume everybody old knows what they're doing. H. KISSINGER The letter was assumed--quite correctly--to have been drafted by my staff and me. 5 O. FELTHAM Such..think there is no way to get Honour, but by a bold assuming it. LD MACAULAY The king assumed to himself the right of filling up the chief municipal offices. b GIBBON Witnesses who had or assumed to have knowledge of the fact. 6 DRYDEN The slipp'ry God will..various Forms assume. E. A. FREEMAN He assumed the monastic habit. D. H. LAWRENCE Gerald assumed responsibility for the amusements on the water. J. B. PRIESTLEY She had dropped the manner she had assumed at lunch. A. WILSON Bill had been the rebel of the family and inevitably had ended by assuming his father's mantle. L. DEIGHTON A line of men had formed and assumed the relaxed attitudes with which Servicemen accept inevitable delay. O. SACKS The attacks were now assuming a most frightening intensity. 7 SHAKES. Haml. Assume a virtue, if you have it not. D. CECIL An essay he wrote under the assumed name of Elia.

Тезаурус:

assume verb 1. assume he's coming suppose, take for granted, presuppose, presume, imagine, think, believe, fancy, expect, accept, suspect, surmise, understand, gather; Am. guess. 2. assume a thorough knowledge feign, pretend, simulate, put on, counterfeit, sham. 3. assume an air of authority|assume massive proportions adopt, take on, acquire, come to have. 4. assume a position of responsibility undertake, enter upon, begin, set about, take on/up, embark on, take upon oneself, accept, shoulder. 5. the invaders assumed power seize, take, take over, appropriate, usurp, pre-empt, commandeer.

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Excerpted from Oxford Talking Dictionary
Copyright © 1998 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.


Попотрошим Вебстер

Main Entry:presume
Pronunciation:pri-*z*m
Function:verb
Inflected Form:presumed ; presuming
Etymology:Middle English, from Late Latin & Middle French; Late Latin praesumere to dare, from Latin, to anticipate, assume, from prae- + sumere to take; Middle French presumer to assume, from Latin praesumere more at CONSUME
Date:14th century

transitive senses
1 : to undertake without leave or clear justification : DARE
2 : to expect or assume especially with confidence
3 : to suppose to be true without proof *presumed innocent until proved guilty*
4 : to take for granted : IMPLY
intransitive senses
1 : to act or proceed presumptuously or on a presumption
2 : to go beyond what is right or proper
–presumedly \-*z*-m*d-l*, -*z*md-l*\ adverb
–presumer noun

Однако другая версия говорит:

Entry Word: presume
Function: verb
Text: 1 to form an opinion from little or no evidence < I presume you'll fly if you do go> -- see GUESS 1
2 to take as true or as a fact without actual proof <we should presume that a person is innocent until proven guilty> -- see ASSUME 2

Уже видно, что в топике смешали в кучу разные значения!!!

Main Entry:presume
Function:verb

1
Synonyms CONJECTURE, guess, pretend, suppose, surmise, think
2
Synonyms PRESUPPOSE, assume, posit, postulate, premise
3
Synonyms IMPOSE 5, infringe, intrude, obtrude


Main Entry:assume
Pronunciation:*-*s*m
Function:transitive verb
Inflected Form:assumed ; assuming
Etymology:Middle English, from Latin assumere, from ad- + sumere to take more at CONSUME
Date:15th century

1 a : to take up or in : RECEIVE b : to take into partnership, employment, or use
2 a : to take to or upon oneself : UNDERTAKE b : PUT ON, DON
3 : to take control of
4 : to pretend to have or be : FEIGN *assumed an air of confidence in spite of her dismay*
5 : to take as granted or true : SUPPOSE
6 : to take over (the debts of another) as one's own
–assumability \-*s*-m*-*bi-l*-t*\ noun
–assumable \-*s*-m*-b*l\ adjective
–assumably \-bl*\ adverb
synonyms ASSUME, AFFECT, PRETEND, SIMULATE, FEIGN, COUNTERFEIT, SHAM mean to put on a false or deceptive appearance. ASSUME often implies a justifiable motive rather than an intent to deceive *assumed an air of cheerfulness around the patients*. AFFECT implies making a false show of possessing, using, or feeling *affected an interest in art*. PRETEND implies an overt and sustained false appearance *pretended that nothing had happened*. SIMULATE suggests a close imitation of the appearance of something *cosmetics that simulate a suntan*. FEIGN implies more artful invention than PRETEND, less specific mimicry than SIMULATE *feigned sickness*. COUNTERFEIT implies achieving the highest degree of verisimilitude of any of these words *an actor counterfeiting drunkenness*. SHAM implies an obvious falseness that fools only the gullible *shammed a most unconvincing limp*.
ð ±

Main Entry:assume
Function:verb

1
Synonyms DON 2, pull, put on, strike, take on
2
Synonyms DON 1, draw on, get on, huddle (on), put on, slip (on), throw
3
Synonyms ARROGATE 1, accroach, appropriate, commandeer, preempt, usurp
Related Word grab, seize, snatch, take
Idioms take over the helm, take possession (or command)
4 to take on or present a false or deceptive appearance *their gaiety was assumed*
Synonyms act, affect, bluff, counterfeit, fake, feign, pretend, put on, sham, simulate
Related Word camouflage, cloak, conceal, disguise, dissemble, hide, mask
Idioms make believe
5
Synonyms PRESUPPOSE, posit, postulate, premise, presume
Related Word affirm, assert, aver, predicate, profess; allow, concede, grant
6
Synonyms UNDERSTAND 3, believe, expect, gather, imagine, ||reckon, suppose, suspect, take, think


Вот еще нашел

Entry Word: assume
Function: verb
Text: 1 to take to or upon oneself <Josh promised to assume responsibility for any damage to the flower beds caused by the volleyball game in the backyard>
Synonyms accept, bear, shoulder, take over, undertake
Related Words adopt, embrace; back, endorse (also indorse), espouse, stand by, support, uphold; accede, acquiesce, agree, assent, consent
Near Antonyms abjure, recant, renounce, retract, take back; decline, refuse, reject, spurn, turn down; abstain, forbear, refrain; avoid, bypass, detour
Antonyms disavow, disclaim, disown, repudiate
2 to take as true or as a fact without actual proof <everyone assumed, wrongly, that someone else was bringing dessert>
Synonyms postulate, premise, presume, presuppose, suppose
Related Words accept, believe, credit, swallow; conclude, deduce, gather, judge, infer, take; conjecture, figure, guess, reckon [chiefly dialect], surmise, suspect, think; conceive, dream, fancy, imagine, perceive, preconceive; hypothesize, speculate, theorize; affirm, allege, assert, aver, avouch, avow, claim, contend, declare, insist, maintain, profess
Phrases take for granted
Near Antonyms challenge, disbelieve, discount, discredit, dispute, distrust, doubt, mistrust, question, suspect, wonder (about); deny, disavow, disclaim, disown, reject, repudiate; confute, disprove, rebut, refute
3 to form an opinion from little or no evidence <as I just assumed it was too late to go out, I didn't think to ask> -- see GUESS 1 - Не находите ничего общего с таким же вариантом на PRESUME?
4 to present a false appearance of <she assumed an air of nonchalance even though she was wildly ecstatic she could go> -- see FEIGN


В общем, в значении GUESS слова близки, но в значении PRESUPPOSE, PRESUME сильнее, аксиоматичнее, может применяться по отношению к закону.

[Лучано]

Подскажите пожалуйста, имеют ли эти слова разные смысловые оттенки?
Мне кажется, что assume больше подходит, когда подразумевается искуственное придание истинности утверждению (гипотеза), а presume, когда как бы известно, что утверждение истинно, но доказательство истинности сразу не приводится.

Если высказано к посылке, в виде предположения (примизы), то НЕ так: вопрос об истинности вообще не ставится в этих словах (при использовании). Все идет for the sake of argument. However, here is a difference in the strenth of presuppositions. Presume is more noble and relatively objective. Короче take for granted применимо к обоим словам, но в случае presume человек более уверен, хотя он может также ошибаться, как тот, кто assumes.

PS: самое сильное их этой плеяды слово - POSTULATE

[Иоп]

Спасибо, Вы очень хорошо написали! Я так и чувствовал интуитивно, но теперь могу это еще и словами объяснить!