Как переводить

[Viktoria.]

Как переводить
That no one who didn"t know her as he did would have been able to notice anything...
Самое главное что смотреть в грамматике по глагольной форме.

[Pink Monkey]

Как переводить
That no one who didn"t know her as he did would have been able to notice anything...
Самое главное что смотреть в грамматике по глагольной форме.

Вы немножко неправильно выделили. It's a parsing problem more than a translation or grammar one.

That no one who didn't know her as he did would have been able to notice anything

Зеленая часть - указывает, что приведенное вами предложение является второстепенным. Темно-красная часть - в свою очередь, тоже второстепенное предложение, являющееся частью подлежащего. Часть, выделенная жирным шрифтом - глагольная.

Перевод вольный -
Что любой другой, не знающий ее так, как он, ничего бы не заметил.

[Viktoria.]

Как переводить
That no one who didn"t know her as he did would have been able to notice anything...
Самое главное что смотреть в грамматике по глагольной форме.

Вы немножко неправильно выделили. It's a parsing problem more than a translation or grammar one.

That no one who didn't know her as he did would have been able to notice anything

Зеленая часть - указывает, что приведенное вами предложение является второстепенным. Темно-красная часть - в свою очередь, тоже второстепенное предложение, являющееся частью подлежащего. Часть, выделенная жирным шрифтом - глагольная.

Перевод вольный -
Что любой другой, не знающий ее так, как он, ничего бы не заметил.

Спасибо, а по выделенной жирной части - какая грамматика. Объясните, пожалуйста, если не трудно. Спасибо.

[Pink Monkey]

Как переводить
That no one who didn"t know her as he did would have been able to notice anything...
Самое главное что смотреть в грамматике по глагольной форме.

[/quote]

Жирная глагольная часть это модальный глагол would + present perfect of [to be able to notice]. Т.е. смотреть надо past conditional mood.

[Viktoria.]

Спасибо большое. А то я всю голову сломала, а спросить стеснялась - стыдно позорится. Спасибо еще раз.

[Boria]

А разве там не сослагательное наклонение идет? По-моему именно оно. То что называется subjunctive mood.
http://www.sil.org/linguistics/Glossary ... veMood.htm
http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/073001.htm

[Pink Monkey]

Имхо это conditional. http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/3r ... ional.html


No one would have been able to notice anything - if they didn't know her as well as he did.

If they knew her as well as he did, they would have been able to notice something. Это были мои примерные рассуждения, когда я сделала вывод, что это conditional. По первой ссылке, согласна, что речь идет о irrealis modality, но не думаю, что subjunctive это единственный пример такой modality. Конечно, в лингвистике нет единой терминологии, поэтому вполне возможно, что их определение subjunctive включает в себя то, что в традиционной грамматике называется conditional mood.

[vc]

Имхо это conditional. http://www.usingenglish.com/glossary/3r ... ional.html


No one would have been able to notice anything - if they didn't know her as well as he did.

If they knew her as well as he did, they would have been able to notice something. Это были мои примерные рассуждения, когда я сделала вывод, что это conditional. По первой ссылке, согласна, что речь идет о irrealis modality, но не думаю, что subjunctive это единственный пример такой modality. Конечно, в лингвистике нет единой терминологии, поэтому вполне возможно, что их определение subjunctive включает в себя то, что в традиционной грамматике называется conditional mood.

You are right, of course. The sentence being discussed does not contain any subjunctive; it has a so-called conditional perfect or 3rd conditional in the main clause plus two clauses in the past indefinite (the subjunctive could have been found in an 'if' subordinate clause if there had been one).

Subjunctive is practically dead in Modern English. Some examples are:

Present Subj.:

Long live the Queen
God help him
I demand thet he go (note the absence of 's')

...et cetera.

Past Subj.:

Counter-factuals:
I wish I were ..
If I were ...
As it were ...
If there had been ..

In the past tens, there is a separate form only for the verb "to be". For other verbs, the past subjunctive coincides with the past [perfect] indicative.

Rgds.

[Viktoria.]

Что кто не знал ее, как знал он, не мог бы заметить ничего.
Это перевод этого отрывка (Анна Каренина) в курсе Илоны Давыдовой.

[Boria]

На самом деле сослагательное или условное одна и та же тема. Новая школа называет это conditional. Старая subjunctive. А в русском говорится сослагательное наклонение условных предложений. Сослагательное наклонение в англ. языке не умерло и я думаю не умрет. С чего Вы это взяли?
Вот посмотрите:

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/conditional.htm

Some writers seem to think that the subjunctive mood is disappearing from English, but that's probably not true. We use the subjunctive all the time to accommodate this human urge to express possibility, the hypothetical, the imagined. (You can review the Verbs and Verbals section for further help understanding the Subjunctive Mood.) Frequently, conditional expressions require that we use were where we would otherwise have used another form of to be. The switch to were is not the only manifestation of the subjunctive in expressing the conditional, but it is the most common.

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/verbs.htm

The subjunctive mood is used in dependent clauses that do the following: 1) express a wish; 2) begin with if and express a condition that does not exist (is contrary to fact); 3) begin with as if and as though when such clauses describe a speculation or condition contrary to fact; and 4) begin with that and express a demand, requirement, request, or suggestion. A new section on the uses of the Conditional should help you understand the subjunctive

http://tech-system.narod.ru/Lesson9.htm
Этот сайт медленно скачивается, но очень хорошо и много объясняет.

[Pink Monkey]

Boria, спасибо за разъяснение . Я приблизительно так и думала об употреблении термина "subjunctive" по отношению к тому, что традиционно называется "conditional". Это постоянно происходит - новая школа приходит со своей терминологией, и потом трудно разобраться, что имеется в виду.

[vc]

На самом деле сослагательное или условное одна и та же тема. Новая школа называет это conditional. Старая subjunctive. А в русском говорится сослагательное наклонение условных предложений. Сослагательное наклонение в англ. языке не умерло и я думаю не умрет. С чего Вы это взяли?

1. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to be applying the term 'subjunctive' to the sentence as a whole. The subjunctive is a verb form used in conditional sentences. E. g.:

If I were you, I would learn to drive.

This is a conditional sentence consisting of two clauses. The dependent 'if' clause's verb is in the subjunctive form (or 'mood') whilst the main clause uses a form more frequently referred to as modal+infinitive, or less frequently, 2nd conditional or even less frequently present conditional.

The original sentence with which this discussion started does not contain any verb in the subjunctive.

2. I said the subjunctive was practically (almost) dead. The present subjunctive is a little healthier, but the past one is almost extinct. Please find a single example of the past subjunctive mood for verbs other than 'to be'. Even 'to be' is barely hanging on since the clause

=If I was you ...

is as good and 'grammatical' as 'if I were you ...' in the conditional sentence above. By contrast, other languages like Spanish or French have a well developed subjunctive form. Witness French 'le present du subjonctif':

il faut que je finisse (cf. je fini)
il faut que tu finisses (cf. tu finis)

English has nothing similar.

Вот посмотрите:

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/conditional.htm

Some writers seem to think that the subjunctive mood is disappearing from English, but that's probably not true. We use the subjunctive all the time to accommodate this human urge to express possibility, the hypothetical, the imagined. (You can review the Verbs and Verbals section for further help understanding the Subjunctive Mood.) Frequently, conditional expressions require that we use were where we would otherwise have used another form of to be. The switch to were is not the only manifestation of the subjunctive in expressing the conditional, but it is the most common.

Well, I disagree. Again, please try to find a single verb besides 'to be' having the past subjunctive form.

Regarding the present subjunctive, British English speakers prefer modal+infitive where Americans might use a present subjunctive. E.g .:

Am. It's imperative he be present at the meeting
Br. It's imperative he should be present at the meeting.

Claiming, that English has a full-blown past subjunctive is similar to saying that Russian has seven cases (7th being the Vocative) as opposed to the usual six.

Rgds.

[Pink Monkey]

Вспомнила старый анекдот английский. Как раз о subjunctive.


A businessman went to Boston for a convention. One night, when he finished early, he decided to find a restaurant that served scrod, a Massachusetts dish. He got into a taxi, and said to the driver: "Do you know any places around here where I can get scrod?" And the driver said: "Sure, I know a couple. But I must confess, I never heard that question in pluperfect subjunctive before"

[Boria]

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/conditional.htm

Some writers seem to think that the subjunctive mood is disappearing from English, but that's probably not true. We use the subjunctive all the time to accommodate this human urge to express possibility, the hypothetical, the imagined. (You can review the Verbs and Verbals section for further help understanding the Subjunctive Mood.) Frequently, conditional expressions require that we use were where we would otherwise have used another form of to be. The switch to were is not the only manifestation of the subjunctive in expressing the conditional, but it is the most common.

Well, I disagree. [/quote]

Well, there is a web site where I got the quote. You can discuss it with them I guess to see who is right. I just remember the subject from my school. That's all.
BTW, here is another site on subjunctive mood:
http://www.artefact.cns.ru/english/gram_subjunctive.htm

I think the important thing is to understand how these moods are constructed grammatically.

Oh, these pages are even better:
http://www.ceafinney.com/subjunctive/
http://www.ceafinney.com/subjunctive/examples.html

[Boria]

А вот смотрите их даже упоминают вместе:

http://languages.refportal.ru/ref16614.html

http://alledu.eup.ru/Documents/2003-01-30/4AFA.asp