Холокост.... Много ли мы про него знаем...?

[boris_v]

Прочитайте мои посты внимательней и все поймете.

Я бы не спрашивал, если бы было не надо.

Вашими же словами: Ну, не поняли, и ладно.

[boris_v]

Просто в процентном отношении, евреи и цыгане пострадали больше всего.

А мне почему-то кажется, что белоруссы. А если вспомнить крымских татар или чеченцев ...

Ну так мы разошлись во мнениях, бывает

[Privet]

boris_v, стоп офтоп. Неужели Вам надо обязательно сказать последнее слово? Вы повторяете одно и то же на протяжения всего топика. Дате лучше хоть одну полезную ссылку или цитату. Это оценится.

[boris_v]

boris_v, стоп офтоп. Неужели Вам надо обязательно сказать последнее слово? Вы повторяете одно и то же на протяжения всего топика. Дате лучше хоть одну полезную ссылку или цитату. Это оценится.

Нет проблем, на все что не относится к теме отвечать не буду.

Ссылку, я уже приводил:
http://www.yadvashem.org

Показания свидетелей по моему самое лучшее доказательство, а 3.2 миллиона только задокументированных жертв опровергают главное основоположение статьи давшей начало этому топику об оффициальной статистике пересмотренной с 4+ миллион до 1+ миллиона. На этом в принципе и топик надо было бы прикрыть.

[vovap]

Эта ссылка уже приводилась. Я задавал вопрос про "Восток". Кто-нибудь имеет какие-то идеи на этот счет?

Эта ссылка, кроме прочего, показывает число европейских евреев по немецкой оценке. Причем, там подчеркивается - не евреев в смысле рассовых закнов - их больше, а именно "еврейских евреев" - т.е. придерживавшихся еврейской культуры.
Какой вопрос про восток?

[vovap]

Да, это упоминалось. Причем, я где-то прочитал, что не "практически", а абсолютно все были на востоке.
Не может это быть Ближний Восток? Есть какие-то метериалы на этот счет?

Какой ближний восток? О чем Вы?
Ситуация была очень проста - большая часть евреев жила на территории восточной европы. В первую очередь - Польши. Там их и уничтожали.
Как Вы можете видеть по документу сначало их как бы предполагалось вывести на восток - ну, типа, Казахстан. На широкие безлюдные территории где большинство перемрут сами с пользой для рейха. Но из этого ничего не вышло - на востоке был фронт и это - транспортный проблеммы.
Вот Вы можете видеть - совещание о окончательном решении в начале 1942 -
Аушвиц раскручивается летом. Свозимых (на восток) евреев некуда было девать - их спешно стали уничтожать на месте - "в перевалочных" лагерях.

[vovap]

Two types of gas vans had been built: a larger one, 5.8 meters in length, and a smaller one, measuring 4.5 meters. Both were about 2.5 meters wide and 1.7 meters high. The bigger one could accommodate between 130 and 150 people, when densely packed inside, and the smaller one from 80 to 100.

http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/s ... ovans.html

[vovap]

Немного показаний:

The children were brought along in a tractor. I had nothing to do with the technical procedure. The Ukrainians were standing around trembling. The children were taken down from the tractor. They were lined up along the top of the grave and shot so that they fell into it. The Ukrainians did not aim at any particular part of the body. They fell into the grave. The wailing was indescribable. I shall never forget the scene throughout my life. I find it very hard to bear. I particularly remember a small fair-haired girl who took me by the hand. She too was shot later....The grave was near some woods. It was not near the rifle range. The execution must have taken place in the afternoon at about 3:30 - 4:00. It took place the day after the discussions at the Feldkommandanten....Many children were hit four or five times before they died.

http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/perptest.html

[vovap]

The Development of the Gas-van in the Murdering of the Jews:

In December 1941, when I reported orally the completion of Himmler's order to execute by shooting the Jews of the Ghetto in Riga to him, Himmler told me that shooting was too complicated an action. In the shootings, one needed troops who were able to shoot, and that it had a bad influence on the men. So, said Himmler further, it would be best to destroy/liquidate/kill the people with gas-vans, which upon his order had been built in Germany" [footnote 77].

http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/d ... svans.html

[vovap]

Ну и в целом - сборник документов:
http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/einsatz.html

Рекомендуется также перед завтраком посмотреть "OPERATIONAL SITUATION REPORT USSR" -The Chief of the Security Police and Security Service.
Примерно еженедельные.
Произвольная выдежка:

Jews

Simferopol, Yevpatoria, Alushta, Krasubasar, Kerch, and Feodosia and other districts of western Crimea are free of Jews. From November 16 to December 15, 1941, 17,645 Jews, 2,504 Krimchaks, 824 Gypsies, and 212 Communists and partisans have been shot. Altogether, 75,881 persons have been executed.

[vovap]

From the testimony of Heinrich, a serviceman in the 307 police battalion, concerning the massacre of the Brest-Litovsk Jews on July 10, 1941:

According to the instructions, groups of fifty people were taken to the ditches and laid down on both sides of them, face to the ground, so that their heads stuck out above the pits. Behind each Jew there was a designated soldier with a "98" rifle, bayonet attached. A shot was made as following: the tip of the bayonet was put to the back of a victim's head. After this, a rifle was to be moved to an angle of forty-five degrees, and a shot was to be fired. It often happened that a skull was torn off along a bullet path. From time to time, if an angle was too wide or a victim was holding his head too high during a shot, a bullet would go through the neck. In such cases an officer or a platoon commander would finish off victims, shooting them from hand guns

From the testimony of Heinrich, a serviceman in the 307 police battalion, concerning the massacre of the Brest-Litovsk Jews on July 10, 1941

[vovap]

Witness: 'And finally my turn came. There was my younger sister, and she wanted to leave; she prayed with the Germans; she asked to run, naked; she went up to the Germans with one of her friends; they were embracing each other; and she asked to be spared, standing there naked. He looked into her eyes and shot the two of them. They fell together in their embrace, the two young girls, my sister and her young friend. Then my second sister was shot and then my turn did come.'

http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/eye/rivka.html

[vovap]

Вот еще немного:
http://www.einsatzgruppenarchives.com/additions.html

[uncle_Pasha]

...

[vovap]

Другие лагеря:
Belzec:

The next day we moved on to Belzec. There is a separate little station with two platforms, at the foot of the hill of yellow standstone, due north of the Lublin-Lvov road and rail line. To the south of the station, near the main road, there are several office buildings with the inscription "Belzec Office of the Waffen-SS" [Military Unit of the SS]. Globocnik introduced me to SS Hauptsturmfuehrer Obermeyer from Pirmasens, who showed me the installations very much against his will. There were no dead to be seen that day, but the stench in the whole area, even on the main road, was pestilent. Next to the small station there was a large barrack labeled "Dressing Room," with a window that said "Valuables," and also a hall with 100 "Barbers Chairs." Then there was a passage 150 m. long, in the open, enclosed with barbed wire on either side, and signs inscribed "To the Baths and Inhalation Installations." In front of us there was a house, the bathhouse, and to the right and left large concrete flower pots with geraniums or other flowers. After climbing a few steps there were three rooms each, on the right and on the left. They looked like garages, 4 by 5 m. and 1.90 m. high. At the back, out of sight, there were doors of wood. On the roof there was a Star of David made of copper. The front of the building bore a notice "Heckenholt Institution." That is all I saw that afternoon.

Next morning, a few minutes before 7 o’clock, I was told that the first train would arrive in 10 minutes. And in fact the first train from Lvov arrived a few minutes later. There were 45 carriages with 6,700 persons, of whom 1,450 were already dead on arrival. Through small openings closed with barbed wire one could see yellow, frightened children, men and women. The train stopped, and 200 Ukrainians, who were forced to perform this service, tore open the doors and chased the people from the carriages with whips. Then instructions were given through a large loudspeaker: The people are to take off all their clothes out of doors – and a few of them in the barracks – including artificial limbs and glasses. Shoes must be tied in pairs with a little piece of string handed out by a small four-year-old Jewish boy. All valuables and money are to be handed in at the window marked "Valuables," without any document or receipt being given. The women and girls must then go to the barber, who cuts off their hair with one or two snips. The hair disappears into large potato sacks, "to make something special for the submarines, to seal them and so on," the duty SS Unterscharfuehrer explained to me.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... stein.html

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps ... psEng.html

About a week after Brack had come to Globocnik, Wirth and his staff returned to Belzec. The second series of experiments went on until 1 August 1942. During this period a total of five to six transports (as far as I am aware) consisting of five to seven freight cars containing thirty to forty people came to Belzec. The Jews from two of these transports were gassed in the small chamber, but then Wirth had the gas huts pulled down and built a massive new building with a much larger capacity. It was here that the Jews from the rest of the transport were gassed.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ctest.html