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Logic
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Post by Logic »

VladimirF wrote:А разве Сев. Вьетнам представлял собой такую же по мощности страну, как Америка? И тем не менее воинская повинность была введена, чтобы только справиться с этой, прямо скажем, маломощной страной (да ещё к тому же не справились, хотя и положили там ни за что 50 тысяч своих
парней).


Ну надо-таки отметить , что Вьетнам всё-таки
не совсем самостоятельно противостоял Америке.
Помните песню "Фантом": "Русский асс Иван подбил меня" :)

VladimirF wrote:Вот Вам и прецедент из прошлого, и вариант будущего.


Надеюсь что до этого не дойдёт
Какие-то десять афоризмов сделали Моисея таким знаменитым! ;)
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Post by DP »

Logic wrote:
VladimirF wrote:А разве Сев. Вьетнам представлял собой такую же по мощности страну, как Америка? И тем не менее воинская повинность была введена, чтобы только справиться с этой, прямо скажем, маломощной страной (да ещё к тому же не справились, хотя и положили там ни за что 50 тысяч своих
парней).


Ну надо-таки отметить , что Вьетнам всё-таки
не совсем самостоятельно противостоял Америке.
Помните песню "Фантом": "Русский асс Иван подбил меня" :)


сбил тебя наш летчик Li Si Tsin
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Post by Logic »

DP wrote:сбил тебя наш летчик Li Si Tsin


Протестую , это пропаганда
:lol:
Какие-то десять афоризмов сделали Моисея таким знаменитым! ;)
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Post by DP »

Logic wrote:
DP wrote:сбил тебя наш летчик Li Si Tsin


Протестую , это пропаганда
:lol:


Я бегу по выжженной земле,
Гермошлем захлопнув на ходу.
Мой "фантом" стрелою белой,
На распластанном крыле,
С ревом набирает высоту.

Вижу голубеющую даль
Нарушать такую просто жаль
Жаль, что ты ее не видишь,
Путь мой труден и далек
Мой "фантом" несется на восток

Делаю я левый поворот
Я теперь палач, а не пилот
Нагибаюсь над прицелом,
И ракеты мчатся к цели
Делаю еще один заход

Вижу в небе белую черту
Мой "фантом" теряет высоту
Катапульта - вот спасенье,
И на стропах натяженья
Сердце в пятки - в штопор я иду

Только приземлился - в тот же миг
Из кустов раздался дикий крик
Желтолицые вьетнамцы
Верещат в кустах, как зайцы
Я упал на землю и затих

Вновь иду по выжженой земле
Гермошлема нет на голове
Взаде дулом автомата
В спину тычат мне солдаты
Жизнь моя висит на волоске

"Кто же тот пилот, что меня сбил?" -
Одного вьетнамца я спросил
Отвечал мне тот раскосый,
Что командовал допросом:
"Сбил тебя наш летчик ЛиСиЦын"

Это вы, вьетнамцы, врете зря
В шлемофоне четко слышал я:
"Коля, жми, а я накрою!"
"Ваня, бей, а я прикрою!"
Русский ас Иван подбил меня

Где-то там вдали родной Техас
Дома ждут меня отец и мать
Мой "фантом" взорвался быстро
В небе голубом и чистом
Мне теперь вас больше не видать

интересно - MP3 где нибудь есть :wink: ???
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Post by Logic »

DP wrote:Это вы, вьетнамцы, врете зря
В шлемофоне четко слышал я:
"Коля, жми, а я накрою!"
"Ваня, бей, а я прикрою!"
Русский ас Иван подбил меня


Что и требовалось доказать

DP wrote:интересно - MP3 где нибудь есть :wink: ???


http://www.airforce.ru/songs/song_21.htm
Какие-то десять афоризмов сделали Моисея таким знаменитым! ;)
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Post by DP »

хорошо - более длинный вариант... теперь будем рассекать с новой песней :D


бегу по выжженной земле,
Гермошлем захлопнув на ходу.
Мой "Фантом" стрелою белой
На распластанном крыле
С рёвом набирает высоту.
Как обычно в баре я сижу,
Виски пью, на девочек гляжу.
Прилетает телеграмма -
Вызывает фронт Вьетнама, -
Значит завтра снова я лечу.

Пролетаю свой родимый штат.
Здесь остались мать, жена и брат,
А увижусь ли я с ними,
Не увижусь ли я с ними,
Знает только жёлтый мой собрат.

Вот я по чужой земле иду,
Гермошлем захлопнув на ходу.
Мой "Фантом", как пуля быстрый,
В небе голубом и чистом
С рёвом набирает высоту.

Вижу голубеющую даль.
Нарушать такую просто жаль.
Жаль что ты её не видишь!
Путь наш труден и далёк.
Мой "Фантом" несётся на восток.

Делаю я левый разворот,
Я теперь палач, а не пилот,
Нагибаюсь над прицелом
И ракеты мчатся к цели.
Впереди ещё один заход.

Вижу в небе яркую звезду,
А за нею дыма полосу.
Вижу я, как Гарри с Бобом
Понеслись на встречу с богом,
Вижу МиГ-17 на носу.

С рёвом приближается земля,
Мой "Фантом" не слушает руля,
Катапульта - вот спасенье!
Но на стропах невезенье -
Прямо в джунгли приземляюсь я.

Только приземлился, в тот же миг
Из кустов раздался дикий крик:
"Эй вы, подлые пираты,
Наступает час расплаты."
Я лежу ничком, к земле приник.

Вот иду по проклятой земле,
Больше орденов мне не видать.
Мой "Фантом", как зверь убитый,
На земле лежит разбитый.
Больше мне на нём не полетать.

Только на допросе я спросил:
"Кто тот летчик, что меня подбил?"
И ответил мне раскосый,
Что командовал допросом:
"Сбил тебя наш лётчик Ли Си Цин."

Только всё наврали вы мне зря -
Чётко в гермошлеме слышал я:
"Вася, бей, а я прикрою!
Чёрт с тобой, я сам накрою!"
Сбил меня советский командир.

Где-то там вдали родной Техас.
Дома ждут меня отец и мать.
Мой "Фантом" взорвался быстро
В небе голубом и чистом.
Мне теперь их больше не видать.
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Post by Logic »

DP wrote:хорошо - более длинный вариант... теперь будем рассекать с новой песней :D


Могли бы и спасибо за ссылочку сказать, для вас старался
Какие-то десять афоризмов сделали Моисея таким знаменитым! ;)
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Post by DP »

Logic wrote:
DP wrote:хорошо - более длинный вариант... теперь будем рассекать с новой песней :D


Могли бы и спасибо за ссылочку сказать, для вас старался


тода раба...
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Post by CBI »

Military Draft Could Include Women, Pacifists

Michael Betsch, CNSNews.com

Tuesday, Nov. 13, 2001

The U.S. Selective Service System is ready to reinstate the draft if ordered by Congress and President Bush. But in this unconventional war against terrorism, pacifists and women may be surprised to learn of their potential to be called to the service by Uncle Sam.

During a recent regional Selective Service conference, one item discussed was the inclusion of health care professionals in a wartime draft, noted Region II Director Col. Keith Scraggs.

According to Scraggs, a health-care draft "could be a likely scenario if we have a shortage of medical folks and this thing drags on out." That scenario would occur only in the event that "the active forces, the reserves and guard couldn't handle it," he added.

<snip>

"Looking at the numbers of medical personnel required, the time frames and the kinds of skills required – it would have to include women," said Brodsky.

<snip>



http://www.newsmax.com/archives/article ... 4604.shtml
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Post by Айсберг »

"Сводки с полей"

РБК. 29.11.2003, Вашингтон 14:04:31. Американские войска понесли в ноябре 2003г. в Ираке самые большие потери с момента начала военной операции против режима Саддама Хусейна 20 марта 2003г. Как сообщает АР, официальные данные Пентагона говорят, что на сегодняшний день американцы потеряли в Ираке убитыми 436 человек. Из них 299 человек погибли непосредственно в ходе боевых действий. В Ираке также погибли 75 солдат из других стран, среди которых 52 британца и 17 итальянцев.

При этом в ноябре 2003г. число жертв среди американских военных составило 75 человек убитыми. До этого месяцем с самыми высокими потерями был апрель с.г. - тогда погибли 73 человека. Число раненых американцев за 8 месяцев операции составило 2,094 тыс. человек.
"Люби врагов своих, сокрушай врагов Отечества, гнушайся врагами Божиими"
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Post by CBI »

Orders Extend Enlistments to Curtail Troop Shortages


According to their contracts, expectations and desires, all three soldiers should have been civilians by now. But Fontaine and Costas are currently serving in Iraq, and Eagle has just been deployed. On their Army paychecks, the expiration date of their military service is now listed sometime after 2030 -- the payroll computer's way of saying, "Who knows?"

The three are among thousands of soldiers forbidden to leave military service under the Army's "stop-loss" orders, intended to stanch the seepage of troops, through retirement and discharge, from a military stretched thin by its burgeoning overseas missions.

"It reflects the fact that the military is too small, which nobody wants to admit," said Charles Moskos of Northwestern University, a leading military sociologist.

To the Pentagon, stop-loss orders are a finger in the dike -- a tool to halt the hemorrhage of personnel, and maximize cohesion and experience, for units in the field in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. Through a series of stop-loss orders, the Army alone has blocked the possible retirements and departures of more than 40,000 soldiers, about 16,000 of them National Guard and reserve members who were eligible to leave the service this year. Hundreds more in the Air Force, Navy and Marines were briefly blocked from retiring or departing the military at some point this year.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Dec28.html
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Post by CBI »

BUSH/CHENEY=2005 DRAFT
www.bushdraft.com

1994 - The Grand Chessboard by Zbignew Brzezinski compares Central Asia to a
chess game with Russia and China--which must eventually result in an
American "win". Control of the world's oil supply and dominance in the 21st
Century is at stake, as cheap oil ends in the 2010s. Noting that the Central
Asian Republics are infinitely more important than any other region--save
the Mideast--because "an enormous concentration of natural gas and oil
reserves is located in the region, in addition to important minerals,
including gold. Any successful American policy must focus on Eurasia as a
whole and be guided by a Geostrategic design.That puts a premium on maneuver
and manipulation in order to prevent the emergence of a hostile coalition
that could eventually seek to challenge America's primacy."

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... -5321285-9 ...



1990s - "Project For A New American Century" and other right-wing
organizations develop strategy for a "uni-polar world" ruled by the United
States with many US bases in the Mideast and Central Asia. Invading Iraq and
controlling the world's oil supply becomes the Neo-Con manifesto.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightlin ... 30310.html

http://www.presentdanger.org/pdf/fronti ... neocon.pdf

Article by Will Pitt:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... le1665.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Rebui ... fenses.pdf



September 11, 2001 - The 9-11 Attack. A "War on Terror" is begun by Bush
with the agreement of the Congress. In the mission of the Selective Service,
it is stated that the Volunteer Army is only intended for peacetime. In case
of war, the nation may turn to the Selective Service. That is why it must
always be kept as an option, even if dormant.



January 8, 2002 - On January 8, 2002, President Bush signed the No Child
Left Behind Act, supposedly to provide accountability education policies.
Yet hidden within the 670-page piece of legislation is Section 9528: ".each
local educational agency receiving assistance under this Act shall provide,
on a request made by military recruiters or an institution of higher
education, access to secondary school students names, addresses, and
telephone listings." All schools must comply with this unfunded mandate or
they lose their federal funding. This amounts to legislated blackmail for
student names. The act also says: "A secondary school student or the parent
of the student may request that the student's name, address, and telephone
listing . not be released without prior written parental consent, and the
local educational agency or private school shall notify parents of the
option to make a request and shall comply with any request."

http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/index.html



Early 2003 - Iraq War, 250,000 out of 480,000 active-duty troops deployed,
conquer Iraq within a few weeks. Yet the U.S. has no plan ready for
reconstruction or democracy and Iraqis, happy at liberation from Saddam,
grow sour at the slow pace, the continued lack of electricity and fuel and
the isolated civil control of the CPA. Garner soon replaced by Bremer who is
no better at speeding up Reconstruction, and the resistance grows with
disaffected Iraqis, old regrouped Baathists and new foreign fighters. Except
for the British, substantial foreign troops are impossible, given Bush's
desire to keep total control of Iraq. The lack of diplomacy, planning and
incompetence adds years to the time high US troop levels will be needed to
maintain control of Iraq and rebuild and exploit its oilfields.



Summer 2003 - Philadelphia Draft Board members "unexpectedly" told to
recruit new members for Board vacancies during Summer training. (from Nov. 3
Salon article)

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2 ... ex_np.html



July 25, 2003 - World Net Daily article on plans for the medical draft
(HCPDS). System could draft up to 80,000 doctors, nurses and specialists,
men and women.

http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33754



September 3, 2003 - The Congressional Budget Office warns that "the Army
lacks sufficient active-duty forces to maintain its current level of nearly
150,000 troops in Iraq beyond next spring (march 2004). "The Army does not
have enough active-duty component forces to simultaneously maintain the
occupation at its current size, limit deployments to one year, and sustain
all of its other commitments"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... guage=prin ...



September 23, 2003 - Draft Board Recruitment ad appears on Defense.Link
site. First public ad for Draft Boards in decades. Page scrubbed within a
few days of being noticed by some media in early November. Spokesman says
there is "no plan" to reinstate draft, which must be authorized by Congress.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/articles/sss092203.html

http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.htm



October 16, 2003 - Donald Rumsfeld memo leaks, saying Iraq "will be a long,
hard slog". www.usatoday.com/news/washington/ executive/rumsfeld-memo.htm



Nov. 4, 2003 - NY Times article on Army Honor Guard Company B being sent to
MidEast, revealing how thin troops are being stretched to cover the
2004-2005 rotation.

http://villagenews.weblogger.com/storie ... ader$10007



Nov. 5, 2003 - Toronto Star article quotes Ned Lebow "This (draft board ad)
is significant", Lebow, a presidential scholar at Dartmouth College in New
Hampshire and former professor of strategy at the National War College in
Washington, adds, "What the department of defence is doing is creating the
infrastructure to make the draft a viable option should the administration
wish to go this route."
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... tar/Layout ...



Nov. 5, 2003 - Guardian article on Draft Board ad. SSS spokesman Amon said
80% of 11,000 Draft Board slots are vacant. (2,000 local boards, over 8,000
empty seats) http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,1 ... 06,00.html



Nov. 12, 2003 - "If President Bush is re-elected, it is likely that he will
reinstate the draft. The war on terrorism will not end in Iraq, but instead
will proceed into countries like Syria and Iran," said Daniel Ellsberg, of
Pentagon Papers fame.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/1112 ... /60246.htm



November, 2003 - Selective Service 2004 "Performance Plan" summarizes how
$28 million will be allocated in 2004 to reduce draft activation time from
current 8 months to just 75 days. Nation-wide Readiness Exercises, testing
the Draft Lottery and examination system, as well as gearing up the Medical
Draft (3.4 million doctors and nurses, men and women age 20-44 are
eligible). Ominously, the Alternative Service delivery system for
Conscientious Objectors is readied for the first time in decades, with the
SSS being funded to compile lists of available Alternative Service jobs for
those who win non-military CO status. All systems will be pushed to reach
95% readiness during 2004.

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html



Nov. 23, 2003 - Boston Globe article: "Army Reserve battling an exodus
War is seen as drain on ranks. The US Army Reserve fell short of its
reenlistment goals this fiscal year, underscoring Pentagon fears that the
protracted conflict in Iraq could cause a crippling exodus from the armed
services."
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washi ... 1/23/army_ ... /



Nov. 24, 2003 - NY Times: Army plans for 100,000 troops until 2006 in Iraq.

http://www.iht.com/articles/118775.html



Nov. 26, 2003 - Ron Paul (R-TX) says "Draft likely to be reinstated".
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul144.html



December, 2003 - Draft Board Recruitment ad re-appears on the Selective
Service Home Page with 2 new sentences stressing the ad has "NO connection"
to Iraq. (recently scrubbed and replaced with a NO DRAFT message)
http://www.sss.gov



Dec. 4, 2003 - Ted Rall predicts Bush will "have to bring back the draft."
Notes 8,000 empty Draft Board seats to be filled by Spring 2005. Wonders
about a "February (2005) Surprise" if Bush is re-elected.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... &e=7&u=/uc ...



December 22, 2003 - In an article entitled "Beware of Attempts to Revive
Military Draft," Newsday reports that "the Center on Conscience and War.
executive director, J. E. McNeil. has heard of rumblings, from the
Republican side of the aisle in Congress, about a draft after the election".
The opinion piece worries whether a revived draft "would give this
war-without-end presidency an endless source of warm bodies to pursue its
cowboy foreign policy." Author Keeler also wonders about a "February (2005)
Surprise".

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny- ... ,6735184.s ...



December, 2003 - The Selective Service Register magazine talks about the new
Special Skill Draft, a top priority for Director Lewis Brodsky. Like the
Medical Draft, the Special Skills Draft will induct men and women up to age
44 if they have needed DoD skills like computer expertise, engineering or
they are a linguist. As with the health care draftees, no medical deferments
are allowed except for total disability. Anyone with these skills will have
to register with the SSS if Bush is re-elected and asks Congress for this.
Moving quickly!

http://www.sss.gov/PDFs/NovDec2003-Register.pdf (go to P. 6) - from sss.gov
home page



December 29, 2003 - WP article: "Army Stops Many Soldiers From Quitting,
Orders Extend Enlistments to Curtail Troop Shortages" 40,000 soldiers and
Guard put on Stop-Loss. A "Draft Per Se" already exists! With the new
stop-loss orders the Armed Forces actually go 20,000 past 480,000 active
troops, the maximum before Congress steps in.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Dec28.html
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Post by CBI »

CBI wrote:BUSH/CHENEY=2005 DRAFT
www.bushdraft.com




U.S. troops will be in Iraq for a long time to come, according to retired Gen. Merrill "Tony" McPeak. Plans for getting them home and re-establishing Iraq as an independent nation may prove ellusive as well as unpopular.

"The fact is, I don't have any good ideas how to get us out," McPeak told more than 100 people gathered Monday at the Majestic Theatre. "I haven't heard a single good idea from anyone how to get us out. I think we're stuck … with no exit strategy to get us out." snip

....

"There's just a chance following a regime change in Washington to increase over time international involvement and legitimize what we're trying to do there."

Not all of McPeak's ideas were received as well. While his proposals to not set a certain date for turning over control of Iraq and raising taxes to pay for the war met with muted applause, his idea to restart the draft system met with a few hisses from the audience.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/20 ... /tue02.txt
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Post by CBI »

By Edward Epstein, San Francisco Chronicle

.. Polls show that among young people the prospect of a draft is a potent issue. A new nationwide survey of 825 people ages 18- to 24 conducted for Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland found that, for 46 percent of them, the possibility of a draft rates as an important issue in deciding whether to vote in November, bunched together with the issues of fear of terrorism and the war in Iraq, but trailing the economy.

Seventy four percent rated the November election as extremely important or important, indicating that young voters, traditionally a low-turnout segment of the electorate, plan to vote this time.

Another survey done for the Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation of 1,028 people found that 32 percent of young people said they wouldn't serve if the draft were reinstated, while 20 percent said they would seek deferments. Forty-three percent said they would serve.


http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/dc_elect ... 34,00.html
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